tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9223684.post3831107701412056192..comments2023-10-22T12:12:04.100+01:00Comments on American Buddhist in England: Nirvana: who wants it?Buddhist_philosopherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14246929532585980356noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9223684.post-72208587304231455602007-10-14T14:44:00.000+01:002007-10-14T14:44:00.000+01:00Hi Gary,Regarding laypeople, Gombrich (p.73) notes...Hi Gary,<BR/><BR/>Regarding laypeople, Gombrich (p.73) notes that in the Milindapanha, p.264 it is said that if a layperson gains nibbana he [or she] will immediately join the Sangha or die within a day!<BR/><BR/>Yikes. But yes this does seem to be one idea fully rejected with the emergence of Mahayana. <BR/><BR/>And yes, like you, I seek nirvana - knowing full-well the difficulty entailed. :) It just makes me wonder why this talk of (just) heaven for the laity occurs in early Buddhism (and is found later in Pure-Land as well). Sure, I wouldn't mind being reborn in Amida's pure land so I can practice a bit more, but that is only <I>so that</I> I could gain full enlightenment. <BR/><BR/>So, for me at least, I say don't bother with striving for heaven so much and concentrate - layperson or not - on the path to enlightenment. Or, if you do seek heaven (/a pure land) and praise its wonderful attributes, just do so with the acknowledgement that it is <I>not</I> the end-all be-all. <BR/><BR/>In fact, now that I think of it, isn't heaven (the abode of the devas) described in Buddhism as a less appealing place to be reborn precisely because there is little impetus to practice there and death falls swiftly and unexectedly? - that may be a subtle knock against 'Ascetics and Brahmins' in the sutta I noted, saying that what they lead the layman to is realy a fairly lousy goal.Buddhist_philosopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246929532585980356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9223684.post-25431963472845535312007-10-14T12:46:00.000+01:002007-10-14T12:46:00.000+01:00Hi Justin.Great subject for reflection here - why ...Hi Justin.<BR/><BR/>Great subject for reflection here - why do we practice? <BR/><BR/>From the Theravada point of view (and I practice this form of Buddhism), yes, according to scripture, those intent on Nibbana in this lifetime usually gave up lay life so's to devote themselves to the task at hand. This doesn't mean that no laypeople ever realized Nibbana, but in the Pali Canon, on the few occasions that this did occur,the newly enlightened Arahant would immediately ordain into the Sangha. (In Mahayana Buddhism, there are examples of fully enlightened lay people, including 'Layman Pang' and Vimalakrti, the latter appearing in the famous Vimalakirti-nirdesa Sutra.)<BR/><BR/>My favorite Buddhist layman found in the Pali Canon is called Citta the Householder (Cittogahapati). He did recieve detailed accounts of Dhamma aimed at Nibbana from bhikkhus and even explained Buddhist teachings when asked to by monks. He also confounded the founder of Jainism, Mahavira, in a lively and witty debate, as well as teaching the Dhamma to many lay people. Citta was declared the foremost layman in expounding the Dhamma, and this was the result of his dedicated meditation practice (he achieved all four levels of jhana, or meditative absorption). When he died, he was an Anagami, or Non-returner, the second highest level of awakening after Arahantship. <BR/><BR/>On a personal level, I practice Buddhism to realize Nibbana, but have no idea when this might transpire, so if it happens in this lifetime or in some future rebirth isn't a point I dwell on. I try to dwell on this moment now, being fully awake to the way things are at the present. This isn't as easy as it sounds, however, as I'm sure you know yourself, Justin!<BR/><BR/>Of course, many Buddhist teachers have emphasized that to desire Nibbana too much is an obstacle to realizing 'it' anyway! The great Ajahn Chah would make this point often to both his ordained and lay followers, saying that to want enlightenment was to immediately trap it in a concept that couldn't possibly lead to full awakening.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for a superb post, Justin!<BR/>Gary at Forest Wisdom.<BR/>http://forestwisdom.thaipulse.com/Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11820006311674418847noreply@blogger.com